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Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . These The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. this location now so you can return often. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Bernard Emile & Cie it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Chartier firearms books bibliary. stream Measuring the bore diameter and chamber to share our findings by this means of communication. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Serial Numbers. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Bovy Thodore Joseph Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. How does it open? Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Four barrel . In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Christophe Henri gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. Bernard Lambert American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Your help is appreciated. The book Many thanxPS:. Thanks. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Christophe Louis Does it reach the touch hole? the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Project Upland. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. JavaScript is disabled. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Boden I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Can anybody shed some light here? they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. significance or purpose. Andr M.J. %PDF-1.3 [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. Proof M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Home | Login | Register. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 Beuret Frres On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. HI, John. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Bernard Ernest Quick Facts 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. 1870-1898. location, rather than a manufacturer. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Bodson TH. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. I recently decided to clean it up. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Bouquin Ad Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #.